Christmas Ramblings
from Pagans get History Lesson from Christian
Non-Christians say:
Christmas traditions were stolen
from celebrations that existed longer than Christianity was ever
conceptualized. Please learn your history.
It was originally the pagans
holiday for the birth of the sun god, Christians only used the same day to get
pagans to convert to Christianity. And Jesus Christ's birthday wasn't on
Christmas.
Christian's Response:
There's nothing wrong with celebrating Christ's birth, as well as his Resurrection. Christianity by the way, was just a continuing faith from the beginning of man's existence ( Adam & Eve), created by God (YHWH). It's not new since Christ. God pointed mankind to Messiah from Adam and Eve and once Jesus came, mankind looks back at the Messiah's work on the Cross since His arrival. He is Christ, ther efore those who follow him are Christians. Its all the same original faith.
Let's take a look at the history here...
You said "Christianity" in your statement, and that's not accurate. The Catholic
religion which you're referring to was created to merge paganism and Christianity
under government imposed religion; a newly created religion at the time of Constantine was used by
the Roman govt to control the people. True Christians rejected the catholicisms Christmas, and only embraced it recently in America as a date to celebrate Christ and to Point to the Savior.
"Christianity" had nothing to do with conversion
it was forced conversion for all of the people under Constantine and the future countries they
conqured. That wasn't Christianity that was Catholicism. You're confusing the
two.
True Christianity existed before Catholicism, (even during the dark years of Catholicism in other areas not controlled by Roman empire), and well after Catholicism, and grew even more since the Reformation; because true Christianity is the real Christianity and the only faith that has the true God, Jesus and Salvation that leads to Heaven.
True Christianity existed before Catholicism, (even during the dark years of Catholicism in other areas not controlled by Roman empire), and well after Catholicism, and grew even more since the Reformation; because true Christianity is the real Christianity and the only faith that has the true God, Jesus and Salvation that leads to Heaven.
As far as Christmas, that originated with Catholicism, but
the event of Christ's birth wasnt. Christ's birth wasnt on the day celebrated
as you say, true. However Dec 25th was the date the wise men (king makers) came
to Jesus after his birth to visit him with Kingly gifts. Therefore we can
celebrate gift giving on Christmas. Especially sharing the Gift God gave in
Christ for our Salvation.
Jesus birth was October 20th - see www.BibleTimeline.org and TheSacredCalendar. com based soley on
History from Scripture . Regardless of the date, those who follow YHWH
celebrate the Savior's birth on Dec 25th because it's a date that this
celebration has been celebrated on since catholicism. As far as Christians go, when we celebrate Christian
events doesnt matter, as Romans 14: 5-12 reminds. My hope for you this Christmas, is that you dont
just hear about the Savior's birth, but that he Saves you. That's why God came to earth. www.NeedGod.com
Second conversation:
Non Christian Response:
So then... Why not celebrate his birthday in October? I'm am also certain that nowhere in the bible does is say to celebrate Jesus Christ's birthday at all, and whether is was before or after isn't that matter, its the fact that it was originally a pagan holiday which was then converted to be the day of celebration for the birth of Jesus
Christian Response:
Because Romans tells us we can celebrate anytime we want to, any celebrations and no one should judge us for it. I certainly would prefer celebrating in October, now that we know the true date of his Birth. But back then they didnt care about the truth (under Catholicism).
Remember, it was about control, not truth. Only in recent years have historians and Christians been able to take the Bible and search for the truth of dates, because they "cared" or "wondered", and now we know. The reason it's not changed today, is both because of catholicisms deep hold in other countries and they wouldnt change the date, that means they'd give up control and have to face facts and truth. And they arent willing to submit to that.
The Bible doesnt say to celebrate His birth, but we can see from the Old Testament celebrations that are just shadows pointing to the Messiah, and we celebrate the Resurrection, and the Lord's Supper. However, we celebrate Jesus birth now, because - why not? We can celebrate that the Savior came to earth through a virgin, and took on human flesh as a baby, so he could live a perfect life, and die a sacrificial death, to take mans place. We can tell that history at Christmas and point others to Christ. This is why we now choose to celebrate Christmas because whether it was meant for evil by others, God can use it for the good of the Gospel. :)
Thanks for the nice conversation today. I hope it gives everyone something to think about, but more then that, I hope you act on the salvation offer Jesus provided and receive it. see www.NeedGod.com to find out why and how .
Concluding Conversation:
Second conversation:
Non Christian Response:
So then... Why not celebrate his birthday in October? I'm am also certain that nowhere in the bible does is say to celebrate Jesus Christ's birthday at all, and whether is was before or after isn't that matter, its the fact that it was originally a pagan holiday which was then converted to be the day of celebration for the birth of Jesus
Christian Response:
Because Romans tells us we can celebrate anytime we want to, any celebrations and no one should judge us for it. I certainly would prefer celebrating in October, now that we know the true date of his Birth. But back then they didnt care about the truth (under Catholicism).
Remember, it was about control, not truth. Only in recent years have historians and Christians been able to take the Bible and search for the truth of dates, because they "cared" or "wondered", and now we know. The reason it's not changed today, is both because of catholicisms deep hold in other countries and they wouldnt change the date, that means they'd give up control and have to face facts and truth. And they arent willing to submit to that.
The Bible doesnt say to celebrate His birth, but we can see from the Old Testament celebrations that are just shadows pointing to the Messiah, and we celebrate the Resurrection, and the Lord's Supper. However, we celebrate Jesus birth now, because - why not? We can celebrate that the Savior came to earth through a virgin, and took on human flesh as a baby, so he could live a perfect life, and die a sacrificial death, to take mans place. We can tell that history at Christmas and point others to Christ. This is why we now choose to celebrate Christmas because whether it was meant for evil by others, God can use it for the good of the Gospel. :)
Thanks for the nice conversation today. I hope it gives everyone something to think about, but more then that, I hope you act on the salvation offer Jesus provided and receive it. see www.NeedGod.com to find out why and how .
Concluding Conversation:
Non Christian reply:
That's what
easter is for!
And no, I don't
Want go to your gospel website. God is in me and everyone else. Realistically
they should then own up to their mistakes and take accountability for being
wrong. I still celebrate Christmas, but then again if its about Jesus Christ
why do we give presents?
Our lives
should be gifts enough so why not celebrate ourselves? Or celebrate our
children, instead we give kids PlayStation's and flat screens.
Christian Response:
You must not
have read the Romans verse I put up or the point that God said no one is to
judge the days we celebrate. We are not limited to Easter (Resurrection Day). Christ's
Birth is worthy of celebration because in that, What we celebrate at Christmas
is not so much the birth of a baby, but the incarnation of God Himself.
And, we are not
to live wildly and squander the life God has given us, our life is not a gift
to God because he created us and made us for a purpose, not one that is selfish
and self centered. Sin stained mankind and we are worthless and no gift to God
without Christ as our Savior. The only
gift that matters is the one God gave us through Christ. Without Jesus perfect
life and (horrible death) on the cross as a sacrificial payment for our sins,
everyone would go to hell for eternity. Because Jesus came and completed his
mission, salvation is now available for those who repent of their sins and
surrender their lives to Him. We can celebrate our own lives on our birthdays,
but those birthday's don't compare to the most important birthday (and date in human
history) when God came to earth to redeem mankind from their sins. And that's
what we celebrate this time of year. God stepping onto the scene, (on earth) "God
with Us", come to save us.
We give gifts because of two reasons. The Magi gave gifts to Christ, so it's a symbol of that. Giving good things to others, as a symbolic example, and because of the story of Nikolaos of Myra had a reputation for secret gift-giving because he had some money to share and wanted to do good deeds like that for poor people. So giving gifts is a good thing. Everyone likes receiving gifts. And God gave us the ultimate gift in Jesus Christ, by his sacrifice, death and resurrection - the offer of forgiveness of sins and eternal life! :)
We give gifts because of two reasons. The Magi gave gifts to Christ, so it's a symbol of that. Giving good things to others, as a symbolic example, and because of the story of Nikolaos of Myra had a reputation for secret gift-giving because he had some money to share and wanted to do good deeds like that for poor people. So giving gifts is a good thing. Everyone likes receiving gifts. And God gave us the ultimate gift in Jesus Christ, by his sacrifice, death and resurrection - the offer of forgiveness of sins and eternal life! :)
You don't have
to go to the website site. It basically tells you the gospel, which if you've
read my previous posts in this conversation stream, you've already heard it. How
you're a sinner condemned before God, just as all unsaved are. God is only "in"
those who are born again in Jesus Christ. If you're not, he's not in you. He
created you, but he's not in you. And
the entire purpose and point of man needing Jesus as their Savior is because we
are sinners. If we die in our sins its Hell for eternity. This is the basics of
Christianity that I'm pretty sure you're familiar with. If we repent and turn
from sin to Jesus, we are coming to the foot of the cross declaring we are
guilty of sinning against God and ask forgiveness and a new life, heart and way
of thinking, (spiritual birth).
I hope you will obey God's command to repent
and turn to Jesus. Tomorrow's not promised on earth, but eternity is. It's
either Heaven or Hell, and on God's terms.
To look into this topic further
